The property management industry has been moving more and more towards automating tasks and processes in the last decade. Property management tools and software have improved drastically and continue to improve every year.
In this episode, property management growth expert, Jason Hull sits down with Mo Hussein from Balanced Asset Solutions to talk about property management tools and systems.
You'll Learn...
[06:23] Why You DON’T Want Software that Does it All
[10:27] Implementing a New Tool or System
[20:40] The Cost of Hiring vs Implementing a New Software
[28:04] The Most Effective Accountability System for Your Team
“Try to evaluate software from a very objective type of lens. At the end of the day, it is just a tool.”
“You don't see an amazing handyman or you know, vendor or somebody that's going to do some work, show up with a, just a multi-tool. Like where's your toolbox?”
“There's no such thing as one product that's going to do everything extremely well.”
“The humbling experience every business owner needs to have is when they start to hire people that are better at the things they used to do that they've let go of.”
[00:00:00] Jason: Initially when I was playing around with stuff in my own business, I was like, I need to find that multi-tool, and I think this is a mistake a lot of people make. I need to find this multi-tool that can do everything. That sounds like that would be the best thing, but it does it really badly, right? You don't see an amazing handyman or somebody that's going to do some work, show up with a, just a multi-tool. Like where's your toolbox?
[00:00:23] Welcome DoorGrow hackers to the #DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and in life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder, and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.
[00:01:24] So my guest today, I'm hanging out with Mo Hussein. Welcome Mo and what's the name of your business?
[00:01:30] Mohammed: Hey Jason. Pleasure to be here. It's called Balanced Asset Solutions.
[00:01:34] Jason: Balanced Asset Solutions. Awesome. So the topic Mo and I are going to be chatting about today is the Power of Innovative Software Solutions. But before we get into that, Mo, why don't you give everybody a little bit of background on yourself and how you've sort of connected yourself to property management?
[00:01:50] Mohammed: Yeah, great, great question. So we are a CPA accounting and technology advisory firm that specifically just focuses on real estate. So we work with property managers, asset managers, fund managers. In implementing software leveraging software to be able to streamline their business and enabling them to be able to scale. Prior to starting this practice about six years ago I've actually worked for AppFolio and well before they were public as well as Yardi Systems. And what I saw in the market was you know, the software is a tool at the end of the day, and there's a lot of complexity that comes with these programs. The accounting nuances, how to properly implement it, get your accounting to work right, your numbers to show up correctly. And a lot of customers would call in asking for accounting and operational kind of advice. And being a software vendor, we're there to make sure that the product is technically working right, versus giving advice in the accounting and operations world. And so we started this practice about six years ago and we offer, you know, CPA and accounting services around the accounting that bookkeeping using these products and also kind of maximizing the ability to kind of streamline your business and wrapping your business processes around these programs.
[00:02:59] Jason: Cool. Awesome. So you worked for AppFolio, you worked for Yardi as well, correct? Correct. Okay. And in a tech capacity?
[00:03:09] Mohammed: In a tech capacity, yeah. In sales and account management? Correct.
[00:03:13] Jason: Okay. I come from a tech background as well, so. Great. I worked at HP and I worked at Verizon, and so we're both nerds. Talk nerdy to me, Mo! Let's go. So what are you noticing in the industry when it comes to software? And, you know, this is a challenge a lot of people are trying to figure out which one to pick when they're in the startup stage. And then what I also notice-- Some try to do it without it-- but what I also notice is that nobody ever seems totally happy with their software and they're always looking over the fence at their neighbor to try and figure out, what are you using? Is this better? And I get people switch more often than they probably should. And then they realize they're missing something else. So what do you work on with clients and what are you seeing?
[00:04:00] Mohammed: Yeah. You know, great question and you know about like what, 15, 20 years ago, when we think about property management software and the industry as a whole, there weren't that many players. You had Yardi, this is before AppFolio time, 15, 20 years ago. Yeah. You had some very legacy players that worked with larger commercial operators like an MRI or Skyline. A lot of these on-premise pieces of software have now been kind of gobbled up by larger players or have transformed to be, you know, software as a service or web-based programs. And now, you know, over time now the ability to be able to build new software, the barrier to entry is much lower. You know, modern technology frameworks like using like single page apps and stuff like that are very ubiquitous. And you're seeing a lot of new entrants and players that are coming into the market. You know, players like Red Vine. That you're hearing of now. And then also there's this whole you know, offshoot or like a entire vertical that's been created now called PropTech. And now you have technology that's specific for screening and, you know, maintenance management, facilities management, investment management, and you have all these little products that are coming out. And so, you know, one thing that we always you know, implore on our customers is, you know, try to evaluate software from a very objective type of lens. At the end of the day, it is just a tool. And the effectiveness of that tool is in how you use it. Right? If you're using a hammer, you know, not in a conducive way, then it's not going to be an effective tool, right? And so there's a lot of buzz in the market that you hear now, especially with AI and generative ai. There's a lot of different tools that are in the market, but you know, the fundamentals of what you're looking to make the software do or hopefully achieve with the software, being able to streamline your rent collections and tenant communication, your vendor communication, you know, we always tell our customers, Hey, put together a checklist of what exactly the objectives are that you're looking to accomplish with this piece of software. Try to tie that to some business outcome. And that's kind of the driver of why you're looking at or evaluating the software and then put together a grading rubric and then, you know, find the software that is effective for your business needs. Don't give too much credence and how it looks or the aesthetics or what you're hearing from other folks. Definitely what you're hearing in the market will help kind of guide the software programs they to take a look at, but you know, we tend to see this as well, a lot of clients are kind of jumping around between different products and are not happy with one product or another. And usually it's an issue associated with kind of the implementation and kind of the adoption and enablement that they're giving to their employees with the product.
[00:06:22] Jason: So, going back to your tool analogy, I think my philosophy with software. Initially when I was playing around with stuff in my own business, I was like, I need to find that multi-tool, and I think this is a mistake a lot of people make. I need to find this multi-tool that can do everything. It's got the hammer, the screwdriver, the pliers, tweezers, knife, like everything in it. That sounds like that would be the best thing. I'll just find something, does everything, but it does it really badly, right? You don't see an amazing handyman or you know, vendor or somebody that's going to do some work, show up with a, just a multi-tool. Like where's your toolbox? "Oh, I've got this guy. This can do everything." Right? So my philosophy on software over time is definitely shifted to, I want my team members to have the best tools, and if those best tools can do some things really well, then I will find other tools to strap onto that or add into my toolbox. That also do their job really well, and I find I get a better result having the best tools, even if I'm spending more money, than having that multi-tool that can do a whole bunch of things. So what's your take on this? Are we in alignment or...?
[00:07:34] Mohammed: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. And I completely agree. There's no such thing as one product that's going to do everything extremely well, right? There's going to be some pitfalls in one area that you have to sacrifice for another area. And so, you know, usually when clients are going through these evaluation kind of cycles of looking at software, what we suggest is, "Hey, you know, use this as an opportunity to also do some introspection. Understand what your standard operating procedures are, how you run your business, what is your accounting cycle look like? Who's involved? How does that process propagate throughout the organization? Same thing with you know, the leasing, the accounting operations when it comes to maintenance and document what that process kind of looks like, and then use that as kind of a guiding post of the functionality you're looking from the program," you know, versus going into the evaluation and looking at a bunch of different pieces of software. And usually when, you know, when clients realize like, "Hey, you know, we didn't realize that this program had a limitation in this aspect," they didn't approach it from a manner of understanding kind of what their processes are and then kind of demoing the software or looking at the programs from that lens, if that makes sense.
[00:08:40] Jason: Got it. So what size of companies and what companies typically are coming to you for help, and what do they need help with?
[00:08:49] Mohammed: Great question. So we have a pretty broad range of clients. We have small mom and pop and customers with, you know, 10 or 15 doors on the residential side. And then we have clients, large asset fund managers that are, you know, grappling with 80,000 plus doors across the world. And so, we don't only focus on residential, commercial, office, industrial, manufactured housing, self storage. The only vertical we don't touch is senior housing, mainly because of hipaa, kind of healthcare requirements there. Ok, cool. Some of the problems that they do have, one is change management.
[00:09:21] Most of the clients we work with have, you know, CPAs in house, you know, they have staff implementing and properly adopting software is a herculean effort, especially as the organization grows larger and larger. You have your day-to-day responsibilities, challenges, organization, and cleanliness, you know, understanding kind of accounting and software. At the same time, you know, change management and project management and the orchestration of that is probably the biggest challenge that a lot of our clients have. And in general, we're all creatures of habit, right? So there's a significant opportunity that cost that comes with kind of managing and implementing a new solution and ushering a change, versus kind of focusing on growth and your portfolio and servicing your owners and your tenants.
[00:10:04] Jason: Now a lot of business owners will get excited about some new tech or some new software, some new thing they're going to throw into the business, and they go and throw this at their team, and then they get friction and resistance and adoption. Anyone that's ever been around tech or software knows that trying to get a team to use tech adoption is the number one challenge.
[00:10:25] You've already mentioned it twice, right? Adoption's a big challenge. So, What is the secret to adoption? And I find for me, there's a couple of factors, but I want to hear what you found really helps with the adoption happening and getting team buy-in and getting team members to actually use this stuff.
[00:10:46] Mohammed: Yeah. Great question. I did a radio show a couple months ago and kind of the three things that we see that are needed in order to have kind of. Effective adoption and enablement with software and just in general, just changes. One is executive sponsorship and so we see a lot of owners of property management, asset management firms, you know, they understand that there is a need for some of your product or, you know, they're doing a lot of pen and paper using a lot of Excel spreadsheets. They want to use some piece of software. However, they'll relegate or delegate that to the team that would also be using it. And so, And this team not only has to go through and do their kind of day-to-day activities, but now they also have to go through the process of evaluating different pieces of software or different software products. And they're giving kind of an artificial budget and the executive or the sponsor is not as involved. Kind of the evaluation process and not giving much weight to, you know, how significant of a change this will be at the end of the day. You know, implementing a new piece of software is very business disruptive. And so, you know, your employees are the folks that are kind of doing this evaluation, feel like they're on, kind of on their own little island and kind of going through this entire change and evaluation on their own. That's one is the kind of executive sponsorship. And usually when that executive sponsorship exists and the, you know, the owner and the executives in the business are actually involved during the evaluation cycle this also gives confidence to, you know, the the employees and the folks in your organization that you are serious about this.
[00:12:14] want to make sure that it is successful. I want to see it through. And it incentivizes, you know, extreme ownership. You know, folks want to do less manual work. We want to do less administrivia work, right? And so, and these software programs have that promise. So executive owner sponsorship extreme ownership. And then lastly, and probably most importantly is change management. And this is something that most organizations just struggle with in general. They're too focused and kind of, siloed into what they're trying to accomplish, that they're not looking at kind of the bigger picture and the impact that this change is impacting across the organization. And so that's why organizations and consultants like us kind of exist. And so executive sponsorship, extreme ownership and change management.
[00:12:58] Jason: Yeah, entrepreneurs like to walk into a room, pull the pin on a grenade that they picked up at a conference. Throw it into the middle of their team and say, "here's our new thing we're doing! or "go do this thing!" and the team are like, what the hell? Like, we've got plenty of work already to be working on. We're not excited about this. This does not look fun to us. This is terrifying. You know, how am I going to manage my current work? And and they don't want to really own it. They, and they don't want to mess up because they know if they go out there, start researching software and they're usually not given the right criteria. Right. Like, they're like, how do we weight the criteria? because they probably are going to be conservative and think just in terms of budget. Whereas the business owner's probably like, I want the best. And, you know, there isn't really a good decision making guide related to this and which weighted factors and how they should consider it. Right. And so, You know, if anyone's ever seen a decision making matrix where you list out all the criteria, right? Like what's the speed of implementation, how disruptive will this be? How intuitive is the UI or the user interface for the software you know, can we pick it up pretty easily? So, How much training is going to be required? What's the cost, right? How long is it going to take to implement, right? And then you can weight all the software and figure out, all right, what's going to look like, what looks like the best one, but which of these criteria is the most important? Which one's the second most important? So there's a cool app I like to, I've used in the past called Best Decision on the iPhone.
[00:14:29] Okay. And you can put in all your criteria, you can put in your question, you can put in all your options, and it'll, you can put the weight on these and then it, you can go through and take it like a quiz and put in all your different options and each criteria. And then at the end it'll say, here's your best decision. So it's kind of cool. I don't know if it exists on Android, but I've used that in the past, but a lot of times people just don't have anything like that and nobody wants to manage the process of implementation. Right. Leaving that on the team shoulder generally doesn't work because they're going to just blame everyone else. There isn't extreme ownership. Right. Which is a great book by the way, right? And then the business owner. Is already delegated, so they're not really taking ownership. Yeah. I could see how that would be a huge mess. Yeah.
[00:15:14] Mohammed: Yeah. It's also you know, implementing a software is it has its own nuances and complexities that come with it, right? There's companies that just focus on that. And quite honestly, if you're a business owner, property manager, you know, implementing software is not a distinctive differentiator to you from your competition, and so you should be taking on responsibilities and delegating internally for the things that actually make material impact and differentiate your business versus, you know, the accounting or implementing some piece of software, which is something that you and your competition peers have to do anyway.
[00:15:43] Jason: Yeah, I find that we have the best success. So DoorGrow has a suite of software as well in that PropTech category, I guess, and we find that the operator is the person that should be moving this forward and learning it and getting the team doing it. Not the business owner typically. Because the business owner likes the concept. They like the idea of the software, they like the vision of where we could get to and the results, but they don't want to do the work to implement it. They don't want to usually learn it fully. And the operator is usually more the personality type that geeks out on that stuff anyway, and would be happy to dig into it, learn it, get it dialed in. Get all the detail in the minutiae en entered into it. Especially when it comes to like process software. It's like we have this Visio like, or Lucidchart like flowchart software for building out workflows for process that you can build in forms and other stuff. But it's very visual and that makes it really intuitive and easy for teams to map out their processes and to know where they're at currently in a workflow if they're running a process.
[00:16:51] We find that's a whole level beyond what we used to experience before we had DoorGrow flow in like Process Street. Or some people use Lead Simple, or they use some of these more checklist based tools. You know, and my operator actually is unique. She's my wife, but she's a little unique that she doesn't like technology, like she thinks it's trying to get her. She's fighting with her computer all the time. She's like, what is this? And she asked me to come in. I'm the nerd in the company. And I'm like, oh, it's like this. She's like, okay. But she's like, "see!" Like technology's out to get me, you know? And so, but she likes using DoorGrow flow. Because it's visual and she can map. I'm like, what are you doing? It was the weekend. This weekend. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, oh, I'm mapping out a process. I'm like, really?
[00:17:36] Mohammed: Yeah, and this is a great example, Jason, that was already a process. You guys had documents, right? You're using the software to kind of map, you know, digitally the process that you've already kind of built. And so that's, and that's huge crux also with a lot of folks that are implementing these new products is that, you know, they don't have that process. They don't have SOPs, you know, they don't have controls within the organization and checks, especially when it comes to the accounting. And so they jump into this product and you know, They're, you know, they fail to have a process and that also tends to make the product just the enablement around it. Very finicky and, you know, there's a lack of adoption. And then, oh they find another shiny tool and product and that gets 'em excited.
[00:18:15] Jason: Right. I think one thing that also really affects adoption is the timeline in a lot of people's minds is a lot shorter than reality. And I think my general rule for implementing something new in a business, whether it's building out one of DoorGrow's, growth engines, and adding this into your business is it's going to take minimum 90 days. And usually it's the first 30 days to just start to install or build this engine or to like get the software just set up. Maybe it's going to take a second month to now start to do the major changes and tweaks in it, and then the third month, usually it's just the little tweaks that give you 90% of the results. Like it's that last 10% of getting something dialed in that gives you 90% of the results. And sometimes the mistake our clients will make, like if they're just implementing a growth strategy, for example, is they will do some of the work during the first 30 days. Not fully build that engine, and then they try and dump a little fuel into it and they're like, this thing is leaky as hell and it's not getting any results and it's not working, and they didn't do the work to get it dialed in. And this happens in your sales process. This happens in just about anything. It's that last 10% of dialing in the little tweaks and the little changes that finally gets you to getting 90% of the benefit and the results.
[00:19:40] Mohammed: Right. No, of course. And then there's also that notion of implementation fatigue, right? It's like the longer that kind of this implementation cycle kind of drags out kind of diminishing returns.
[00:19:51] Jason: Oh, totally true. They just burnt out on it. And the business owners getting fed up and it's just because they didn't probably have a decent plan, but they're like, they're giving up. And then you hear, like I hear a ton of clients say, Hey, we really like property meld like this cool tool that really has helped us dial in our maintenance and speed things up. And then I hear some say we tried it for like the first month and it was a nightmare and we quit. And I'm like, really? Because I hear amazing feedback most of the time. They're like, oh yeah, it was awful. I'm like, okay, so.
[00:20:25] Mohammed: Fail the plan or plan to fail. Right?
[00:20:27] Jason: Yeah. So interesting. So, well, what else would you like to chat about the power of innovative software solutions that we haven't covered yet?
[00:20:38] Mohammed: Yeah, so, you know, a lot of times when we're talking to clients or prospects that are implementing a new piece. One thing that I did want to kind of double click on is the the point that you mentioned about kind of the timeframe it takes to implement a new piece of software. It's also the toll and the investment, right? The time investment. You know, there's an opportunity cost between hiring experts to do something versus, you know, DIY or doing it yourself. And so I feel like there's also a chasm and kind of a gap between kind of ownership's understanding of just like, Hey, this new product is just data entry. I can use my VA or folks that I have in the Philippines, or you know, some of my other employees that just enter this data and then all of a sudden this product is going to be working well. Yeah. I'm curious when you're talking to clients and they're saying, Hey, you know, this piece of product didn't work well for us, do you usually kind of dig a little bit deeper? I'm usually try to ask a lot of follow up questions, quantify like where exactly things did not go right.
[00:21:34] And and I tend to get a lot of answers of, you know what, I don't know. That's a good question.
[00:21:37] Jason: So when things don't go well, it's usually excuses. They're like, well, we couldn't get vendors to use it, like if they're talking about Property Meld. But really like, did you tell them if they want to work with you, they have to use it? And did you sell them on the benefits of how it's going to collapse time for them? And they'll be able to just use their phone to do this and it'll make everything easier. Right. So I think one of the challenges is if you go into implementing a software, switching to a software, but you don't yet believe in it, then you're going to sabotage your results with it. And that means they're not fully sold on it. And I think when it comes to technology, First, the person that's the decision maker has to be sold on the technology. They have to believe in it if they're really going to move forward. Otherwise, they should not move forward with it. And then once they believe in it, they have to transfer that belief to their team. They have to convince the team to believe in it, because if they can't sell the team on doing it, but they're going to expect the team to implement it, it's going to be met with disastrous results. And I think that's our role as an entrepreneur. We have to continually be selling our team. On what we're doing, and then we can sell to potential clients on what our business is doing. But we have to always be selling our team. And the way that we do that internally, one of our software or one of our tech tools is a planning software called DoorGrow OS for Operations. One of the flaws or fundamental flaws I see in planning like with EOS or Traction or these sort of things is it's very top down. It's like I'm in charge and it over inflates the importance of the visionary in the accountability org chart. Like the visionary is like this amazing God who the only person who has all the ideas in the business. Which is really flawed thinking. If you have even a decent team, really flawed thinking, that means you're the emperor with no clothes. Everybody's like, yeah, you have the best ideas. Sure boss, you know, and you're missing out on a lot of good stuff. And then they, the below that person, they put the integrator and then below the integrator in the org chart, they put everyone else on the team, right? The rest of the executive team. This is so fundamentally flawed. I think it's ridiculous, but. It really inflates the importance of it inflates the ego of the visionary looking at this, well, yeah, I am pretty important. And then it over inflates the importance of the integrator, which really probably should be called an operator, but the integrator. And that's what the EOS company sells.
[00:24:09] They sell integrators. These are their coaches that help with the implementation of this flawed system. And it over inflates the importance of this integrator so they can sell integrators, right? I believe that's a very top-down system, and I think it's super important to have a bottom up planning system with your team to where the team you're getting their ideas first on each of the major areas of dysfunction or constraint in the business, and then the visionary is the last to speak.
[00:24:37] An operator is probably second to last to speak so that they don't mess everything up and temper it and become the emperor/empress with no clothes, where everybody's like, yeah what he said, I just want to keep my job and please this person. So what he or she said, right? So, so I think with I think it starts with having how you plan as a business and the planning and cadence is the communication system in the business. For effective communication and rolling out software or implementing new things, there needs to be a really solid plan, but the team need to be coming to these conclusions. The team needs to be saying, Hey, we could use a better software. And you can inject those ideas as a visionary, like, Hey, I did see this. There is a problem here. Let's brainstorm and the team come up with ideas.
[00:25:23] The visionary might say, Hey, you're missing another idea. There's this that could do this. And the team might be like, oh, okay. Right. We should get that Property Meld software or whatever, right? So you got to get the team's buy-in. And I think that happens through really good planning, right? And a lot of teams, that's one of the most fundamental systems I think a business should have, is a really good planning system where they have annual goals broken down into 90 day, you know, quarterly goals, broken down into their 30 day or monthly goals, broken down into weekly commitments. And this is strategic stuff to move the business forward. So they have a strategic plan, not just their daily tactical work. And the challenge, most businesses, everything's tactical, and then the boss comes and throws some strategic grenade into the middle of the room and says, Hey, start doing this thing. And the team didn't plan this together. They didn't buy in into this, they didn't see the problem together, and they didn't brainstorm together. And so there's no buy-in and it's very top-down. I think that's where the mistakes really start to happen, so.
[00:26:22] Mohammed: You hit the nail on the head there, Jason. It's it's funny you know, that even the way that software today is evaluated has changed also. Right? You know, traditionally, you know, a couple decades ago when you had a lot of on-premise type of software like Cap X, software investments versus, you know, SAAS subscriptions where you're actually paying a monthly maintenance fee, right?
[00:26:41] Jason: You had to have a server and then you had to have a tech guy maintaining the server and there was some nerd that understood it and they had, like, you were like, you had to pay them whatever you had to pay them because this was, your whole business was running off this.
[00:26:52] Mohammed: Yeah. Right. Now you can just get something off the shelf and get it implemented very quickly. But one key thing that I do want to highlight of what you said is that, you know, you need to elevate the voices of the folks that are closest to the problem. So it has to be kind of that bottom up type of grassroots type of investment and type of focus. Because those are the folks that have the most to gain from being able to solve for those problems. And they'll feel, you know, when there are a lot of initiatives or objectives that kind of come from top down. Similar to what you were saying kind of about the eos, is that folks see it as kind of a task that are being delegated to do this work versus, you know, being incentivized and taking ownership of like, Hey, you know what, this is my domain. This is going to make my life easier in x, y, and Z way. And you know, and then I think the goals are very important.
[00:27:37] I'm sure you've heard of kind of smart goals specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and time based. And putting that into, you know, weekly, 30 days, 90 days, and kind of, and going through that type of approach and kind of any type of endeavor or change or kind of trying to turn things around. Most of the clients that we speak with are just folks that we see that fail with when it comes to implementations. It's usually, you know, a lack of ownership and a lot of kind of top-down initiatives that are kind of broad, the organization and then, you know, kind of a lack of a, you know, sponsorship.
[00:28:04] Jason: Also, you know, there's some entrepreneurs listening to this right now. I guarantee it. It might be you, whoever's listening that are thinking, this is total bs this can't work because the, you know, doing something that's bottom up. Because fundamentally, even before having a really good planning system for the team and communication system, if you could do this and have it be bottom up, they're like, it has to be top down because my team are idiots. Like, they don't believe in their team. And that's because there's a lot of bosses that have built the wrong team, and it's because they're showing up as the wrong person already in the business, which means they're wearing hats right now. If you're listening and you're wearing hats right now that you do not enjoy, several hats you don't enjoy, maybe you don't enjoy sales or maybe you don't enjoy accounting or whatever it is, or the team members that do are doing these things, you are all always talking with them about how to do it, which means your org chart really just has you in parentheses, next to every person in the org chart, right? So that means that you are the wrong person. You're showing up doing the wrong things in the business, and you've built a team around the wrong person. It's like having a fake puzzle piece. Instead of the right puzzle piece. It's you, and then you build puzzle pieces all around that. And so now you have the wrong team. And so you have the wrong team if you are constantly frustrated in your mind saying, why won't my team just think for themselves? The problem is you. It's because you as a business owner, Are holding onto too many things and not letting go.
[00:29:37] And it's because you have built a team of people that you don't trust or you built a team of people that the business needed, but you didn't build the team that you needed in order to have more peace and more certainty and more freedom and fulfillment in your business. And so you built this monstrous business around the business and it's taken over like this armchair tyrant, this highchair tyrant. This highchair tyrant that's thrown food and saying, I want more. And you just keep giving it to the business and you should be in charge of this business. And that means that you should be setting really good culture. And that means you should be attracting team members and only hiring team members that believe what you believe in, share your views so that you can actually trust them. And so a lot of the reason why top-down systems are so necessary, even though they're bad ideas because they don't have a team they trust. So even going back before, like before technology, before planning, they need a team they actually trust, which means they need to be super clear on what their values are, their culture, and only hire based on that so that they can actually trust their team members. And if you hire good team members that you like culture-wise and they're the right personality fits for those roles when you weren't? They will be better at those things than you.
[00:30:53] That's the humbling thing I want every entrepreneur to eventually experience, because it's pretty powerful because we think we're pretty hot stuff in the beginning. We start to build a team, they come to us with all their questions. We're like, man, I know everything. It's so good to be king. And then the humbling experience every business owner needs to have is when they start to hire people that are better at the things they used to do that they've let go of. And they know like they're exceeding your ability to perform in those areas. Like I used to design logos. My logo designers are better at designing logos than me. Right. As an example, and then you can really start to trust that team and you can trust them. Like my operator's a better operator than me.
[00:31:32] I was terrible at running the planning meetings. I just wanted to get them over with, I didn't want to do it right. And now she tells me," you're last to speak. Like don't talk." And I'm like, "okay." because she runs it, she's in charge and she makes it way better. And it's a lot faster than I would and more efficient than how I would do it.
[00:31:50] Mohammed: Yeah, think that creating that crux of dependency is definitely going to stifle growth and scalability, right? And so, it's interesting that you mentioned, a lot of listeners or folks that are probably listening to this, and we hear this as well, is that they don't trust their teams. There's some introspection and it needs to be done there. If you've hired the right people for the right roles. You know, there's there's this notion, you know, Google's considered one of the most like, you know, effective organizations in the world and when, and they do a lot of research on on team dynamics and they have this notion of of psychological safety, which is basically how folks under understand like the own you know, ramifications of being able to take risk within an organization. And so you need to enable your folks and have the right folks in the right roles and be okay with people that have failed, but you want them to be bold. This is what helps kind of move the organization forward and helps you evolve as a business and scale and grow and you know, creating that dependency crux or creating yourself and creating that friction where you are a bottleneck and how things move and change within the organization. It creates not only a challenging environment to be able to like actually grow and evolve, but then it also erodes morality within your staff as well. And eventually you'll push out the high performers.
[00:33:01] Jason: Yeah, I think you know, A players love to be recognized and they love to be seen and B players love to hide and to not be noticed. Their secret goal is to make as much money as possible and do as little as possible. And A players, they don't just give you their time, they give you their discretionary time. Like they're thinking about you in the shower, they're thinking about your business and how to improve in their role when they're like on their walk, you know, on the weekend, right? Because they're believers and they want to win. And so I think a lot of entrepreneurs out there listening to this, they might be thinking, I need more KPIs. I need more micromanaging. I need more metrics. I need more profits, so I need to squeeze more blood from these team members. They're not giving enough, and that probably just means you have the wrong team.
[00:33:51] It's surprising how little KPIs and metrics and accountability is needed when you have A players on your team and you just build in a simple accountability system like DoorGrow os, or some sort of planning system in which they are working towards objectives instead of just being given transactional leadership where it's a transaction. "Do this task and I'll pay you, right?" Transformational leadership is where you give them an outcome and a timeline, like a deadline and say, by the end of the month we want to achieve this goal towards our quarterly goal, which is in two months, you know, or whatever. You can have these things defined and what happens is these team members start to function like intrapreneurs.
[00:34:31] They start to innovate, think, move things forward, and then implementing things like technology and software is just going to help them get towards these goals that they're working towards. It's not something preventing them from their day-to-day work. Instead, because if you don't, if they don't have strategic goals, they're just going to focus on the tactical work they have. And strategic growth in the business should be at priority over the daily tactical tasks. And if team members can see that and they have strategic goals, they're responsible for by the end of the month, they will focus on that and get their tactical work done. And the business then innovates and moves forward. And it's a really amazing, like beautiful thing to see happen. Well, this is a fun conversation. It sounds like there's a lot of people out there, I'm sure you've worked with quite a few that really could use some help understanding how to get their technology stuff dialed in, knowing what tools exist out there that can solve this you know, what can you help them with and how do people get in touch with you?
[00:35:35] Mohammed: Yeah, good question. So we offer a pretty wide range of services, whether it's, you know, tax help, bookkeeping, accounting, implementing software, custom reporting, creating SOPs, and even just auditing business processes. And then if you ever do get audited by the boogeyman, they call Department of Real Estate. We also do Dre representations as well. You can reach us at www.balancedassetsolutions.com. You're welcome to also email me directly at mo@balancedassetsolutions.com.
[00:36:05] Jason: Balanced asset solutions-- plural-- solutions.com. Yes. Okay, got it. All right. Cool. Mo, thanks for coming on the show.
[00:36:14] Appreciate you being with us.
[00:36:15] Mohammed: Pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, Jason. Take care.
[00:36:18] Jason: All right, so check out Mo and his business if you need some support. Coming to this conversation, I didn't even know what he did, so this was really interesting for me. My team sets up these interviews and sounds like a really cool thing to get that support and technology implementation. If any of you've gone through it, you know, this is a painful process, so make sure you get some help. So, for those of you watching the show, if any of these things resonated that you're struggling with your team, you're struggling with getting, you know, more profitability in your business, make sure to reach out to DoorGrow. We can help you do those things in addition to helping you add doors, but more importantly we can help you make your business scalable. A lot of you aren't adding doors right now because you know how, but because. You know, if you add more doors, your life personally will get worse as a business owner.
[00:37:10] And if that's the case, you do not yet have a scalable business. So you need a really good process system. You need a really good people system, and you need a really good planning system. And if you have those three things, you can, you're infinitely scalable. You can scale quickly, you can add any number of doors, and that freedom and that safety and that ability to just add doors and know that your business can handle the growth means you can now go even eat other companies, start to acquire businesses in the property management space, you can start buying up your neighbors. We want to help you do all of this stuff and scale. There's no reason why you can't be probably in the next two to five years, a thousand door business, crushing it and we can help you get there. We've got the roadmap, we've got the tools, we have some tech.
[00:38:00] We can help you move forward on this. So reach out to DoorGrow. Check us out at doorgrow.com. And if you're wanting to get into an awesome free community, you waste a little bit of time on Facebook, you might as well be wasting that time in a way that's not wasting time. Like go to DoorGrowClub.com and you can get access to our free Facebook group. It's for property management, business owners, entrepreneurs. Get access to our free Facebook group by going to DoorGrowClub.com. We have some cool tools and free gifts that you get. As you join the group, make sure to answer the questions and if you plug in your email address in your phone, we will reach out to you and give you some free stuff that's going to help you grow and improve your business. And you will have a resource in which you can ask questions to other property management entrepreneurs get some really good ideas and it's an awesome community. And it's growing rapidly, right? It's growing rapidly. So make sure you get into the DoorGrow Club. Go to DoorGrowClub.com and that's it for today. Until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.
[00:39:01] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!
[00:39:28] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.
DoorGrow recently partnered with Rocket Station VAs, a company that goes above and beyond finding the right virtual assistant for your property management business.
Property management growth expert Jason Hull brings back Greg Brooks to talk about the new relationship between DoorGrow and Rocket Station and what’s next for hiring in the property management industry.
[01:45] Why an Operator is the Most Important Hire
[05:02] Rocket Station’s Unique Process Mapping and Training
[12:56] Why You Should Hire Virtual Assistants
[15:11] Vetting and Filtering Hiring Candidates
[21:25] The Kinds of Team Members PMs Need
“One of the big challenges that our clients have is they need operators. Like, this is the most important hire I think that any business will ever make.”
“Most businesses don't even have a decent operator.”
“A lot of the property managers out there, like if you wanted to map out your processes and systems and you were real operations-driven, you would've done it.”
“If you're listening to this and you are still doing a bunch of stuff and wearing a bunch of hats and you already have a team, you have probably built the wrong team.”
[00:00:00] Jason: The challenge with operators is in the us, they're expensive. These operators are usually probably minimum, like maybe 80 grand, and sometimes they want equity, you know, like they're not affordable to a lot of these property managers that hit that wall at maybe about 150, maybe 200 doors. And so we were like, how can we solve this challenge? And then it was like, well, maybe one of these companies could take VAs and we could find the cream of the crop and find those that could be operators.
[00:00:29] Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income.
[00:01:06] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.
[00:01:28] So returning to the show, I'm hanging out here with Greg Brooks of Rocket Station. Welcome back Greg.
[00:01:35] Greg: Yeah. Thanks so much for having us. I'll just look and say the last invite to this was almost two months ago to the day, so we're becoming like a monthly regular. I like it.
[00:01:43] Jason: Cool. We'll just keep it going. So, we've been chatting and one of the big challenges that our clients have is they need operators. Like, this is the most important hire I think that any business will ever make in their business is to get some sort of person that can help them really get the operations going because a visionary CEO does not like dealing with operations. They're bad at it, and they try to do it, and they're always telling themselves, I need more processes and I need to do more stuff, and, and they're just not doing it. And so what we wanted to do is we had this crazy idea, maybe there'd be a company that could do operators, but do it in an affordable way. And the challenge with operators is in the us, they're expensive. These are people that are beyond the level of what you would normally pay for just a va or even an executive assistant, even if you hired them in the US. These operators are usually probably minimum, like maybe 80 grand, and sometimes they want equity, you know, like they're not affordable to a lot of these property managers that hit that wall at maybe about 150, maybe 200 doors. Maybe they're in 300 to 400 doors, somewhere in there. But they need this operator and they don't have it, and they are in the least profitable stage of their business they will probably ever be in some instances. Because they've maxed out on staff, they've got all these team members, they built the team incorrectly, and so they have a lot of people that are costing a bunch of money. And so we were like, how can we solve this challenge? And then it was like, well, maybe one of these companies could take VAs and we could find the cream of the crop and find those that could be operators. So that's, that's kind of the conversation I think we started to have. Does that sound right?
[00:03:31] Yeah, sounds, sounds accurate.
[00:03:33] So what, what did we come up with? I don't want to do all the talking so.
[00:03:37] Greg: You're good. No. So I think the part where we kind of bonded, if you will, between our companies is that that whole process implementation. A. Having someone that can kind of run point on that for you and streamline those processes systems, like that's a huge gap as you're trying to hire that operator, right? You got to find someone, find someone who's affordable and they got to come in and help with the process and systems. So it kind of blended perfectly with how we deliver our services. Because we have a whole team of professionals from the operational standpoint who, you know, help our clients, help our our property management clients go through that thought process and create those documents and create those processes and point out, Hey, why do you do it like this? Did you know your software can automate that? So it blended nicely in terms of that level of expertise. And then when you talk about the cream of the crop, I mean, Obviously, I'm very biased here, but I feel like our, our virtual assistants are the best in the business from the training and the experience and, yeah, really the comprehensive onboarding that we put them through to where DoorGrow members can help leverage our eight years of experience in this space to help with the systems, the processes, the refinement, and then we can put a rockstar VA in there who can jump right into the seat and really be that operator that they need at a much more affordable rate. So it just seemed like how you guys delivered and what you were teaching and the hires and kind of the steps that you, you know, teach to your students, regardless of what level they're at, really aligned with kind of our philosophy in terms of how to hire VAs and find great talent. And so I think we're going to knock it out of the park.
[00:05:02] Jason: Yeah, there's a lot of synergy there. And you kind of breezed over it, but I want listeners, I want people listening to really recognize this, what's really unique that I found about Rocket Station-- and we actually just gave you a client as a Guinea pig. And he just commented in my group coaching call today, he was like, " they've been awesome already so far." Like he's really appreciating the process. I think what's really innovative or unique about what you do is your team will come in and actually start to map out processes in a flowchart, like you'll start to help them map out their processes. This is something that's so painful for them to do on their own. I hear it all the time. Like, "oh, well, I need to work on my processes." Cool, but why are you doing it? And they really, if they were the guy or gal to do it, they would've done it by now. Yeah, there's a reason why they have not done that. And so when you come in and start to do this with them, that's a game changer for them. And so I love that you do that. Not only that, but we have DoorGrow flow that we launched recently, which is a visual flow chart based software, so similar to like Lucidchart or Vizio or some of these tools. And so, on our last call that you did with our team where we were like sharing with our team what we were going to be doing, we're like, oh yeah, that's some other synergy, right?
[00:06:14] So, we are excited to start to get some of your VAs trained in to learn some of our systems, some of our software tools that we have for clients that I think are really new and innovative to the industry. There's, I don't know of any other visual flow chart software for processes in the industry like DoorGrow flow, and then your team members can help them to start to get these processes mapped out, documented, but even more so, we want to get this person supported in our program for those that are in our mastermind, in our super system and train this VA that is going to handle operations and be an operations assistant, help them figure out how to run the planning meetings, how to run the cadence for the team communication that meeting structure we call DoorGrow os how to handle some of the hiring pieces. And this allows a very affordable solution and it can all be done through Zoom calls, you know, as a team, which is how I run my company.
[00:07:12] And I think that it'll be a game changer for the industry because, One, there aren't operators out there that are really well trained. There aren't operators out there that already know some of these systems and different property management systems. Most businesses don't even have a decent operator. And so, one, to get these systems installed and two, to have somebody to do it, that it actually, the right personality fit, culture fit, and skill fit for that role, I think will be a game changer. So now you have your own vetting process. I think we talked about that a little bit on the previous call. Maybe you can share just a little bit for those that weren't on that or didn't listen to that podcast interview, like, what's kind of your process? How does that unique, and then I'd love to share how we're going to add to that with DoorGrow, another layer to that.
[00:08:00] Greg: Yeah, definitely. And I know from our side, our team, when we announced this partnership, they were like literally salivating, right? They love the process. They see it as like a triple win. It's like you guys have very structured systems and very, you know, structured teaching, which is great because then when you take that and turn it into processes and act as that resource for the client it makes that synergy where we're, you know, we're speaking DoorGrow, right? And we can really be there you know, in line with their journey, regardless of if they're at, like I said, 20 doors, a hundred doors, 500 doors, wherever they're at. But then also like the software, like you said, our, I know our team has already started to mess around with flow and, and like they love it. So just being able to speak the same language. Every part of the journey is huge. And then, yeah, our vetting process it's basically six weeks of comprehensive screening. I know something that I think we talked about in the last podcast, or maybe it was in the conversation with some of your team members, we're big on, on kind of the three checkpoints, right?
[00:08:52] You got to have the experience, you got to be tested and vetted and evaluated based on your knowledge, based on your tactical and practical skills within property management, and then you've also got to be the right culture fit, right? You got to have the right personality to, you know, want to be that operator. Because like you said, a lot of the property managers out there, like if you wanted to map out your processes and systems and you were real operations driven, you would've done it. Like most property managers are visionaries and they've got big plans, and the day-to-day operations just isn't what they enjoy, and it isn't what, you know, gets them up out of bed every morning. So what we've done prior to any operator or really any position, right? We staff kind of across the board-- is it's six weeks of comprehensive screening, evaluation and property management specific training. And part of what our team's really excited about, that we're literally building as we speak is more DoorGrow specialized training so that, you know, we've got eight years of experience in the property management industry working with operators that are 25 doors.
[00:09:52] Two of our largest clients are over 40,000 doors. So like all the scale and the bottlenecks and the little learning points, like we've seen it, we've done it, we've staffed to it. But what we're excited about is to now really dive in to the DoorGrow platform, whether it's on the software side, whether it's on the process side, and really customize that training even further. So from day one that that VA gets into the seat, they're right there in the thick of it with the property manager to be able to really help and be that operator that assistant, that the business actually needs so they can start taking advantage and scaling quicker than their competitors.
[00:10:25] Jason: So we didn't talk about this on the previous interview, but our team got to see this. One of the things that really resonated positively about Rocket Station is you guys really are contribution focused and you really have a positive impact with the talent that you have in the Philippines and you're impacting, you know, things there in the Philippines. Can you just touch on some of the stuff that you do with schools and some of that kind of stuff just real quick?
[00:10:49] Greg: Oh yeah, definitely. And cut me off. I get too long winded here. Usually we're talking business and talk and shop, and I don't get to brag on our people and what they do in country. It kind of comes down to how we even deliver the service to. There's a reason we go through the process mapping, right? Talent is everywhere. It's global. We now live in a global workforce. Most of the time, property managers aren't able to really leverage VAs the way we feel like they can. Mm-hmm. Simply cause like there's no process, there's no training, there's no onboarding, there's no ramp up, there's no screening process. So that same commitment to set a VA up for success in their business life. We do the same thing with kind of our-- we have a program called Rocket Station Cares, where we're very intentional about monthly doing events in local neighborhoods, in local communities, in the local islands. All of our people are in the Philippines, so a country of 7,000 islands where we give back.
[00:11:35] So I know you guys, what we kind of showed you a little video that that we had done where we had gone to a a school of 2200 students and we had donated not only our time, we did a whole day you know, volunteer effort where we played games with the kids and we we sang songs, but we also donated computers, printers. We donated over 500 tables and chairs to their classrooms because this school was a state funded school that was only supposed to ever house 800 kids. But the need there in that specific area, The population was almost 1500 that were at this school. So we're very intentional. We're like you guys. You know, we're a little bit bigger. We're about 2200 people all across the Philippines, but we're fully virtual as well. So like being intentional and realizing like, yeah, all of our people, they want great opportunity. They want a professional atmosphere, they want to work for a great client just like anybody does in their business journey, professional lives, but also being like, Hey, There's a huge sense of community, a huge sense of camaraderie, and we're very intentional with getting out into the community and volunteering our time and giving back to their local neighborhoods, their, you know, their local areas. And like I said, the team does it monthly. We go over there, the US side of the business goes over there about four times a year, and we really try to make it a big spectacle. You know, donating money, donating resources, but more importantly, donating our time and getting out there to really give back.
[00:12:56] Jason: So I imagine that's a bit of a challenge is that a lot of people go get VAs thinking, one, they're like, I don't know what the VA could do, but I think we need some help and I want some cheap labor. And then they sometimes treat those people as like second class members of their team and stuff like that. And so I'm sure you run into that, I'm sure. Like you get some clients and you're like, man, I don't know if they're really treating our people right. One of the things I'm really excited about, I hopefully, you know, rocket Station's excited about this too, is we coach and train all of our clients on creating good culture. Like it's wired into what we do because I think it's one of the greatest secrets to us being able to scale businesses. We can get three times the output in a business from staff if there's good culture. And so we get this stuff really well dialed in with them. And so I would imagine, like, I'm biased probably, but I would imagine that doorGrow will provide some of the best opportunities for, you know, for your VAs to work at through our clients because they're going to have good culture, they're going to have strong values and it will allow you to match people that share those similar values. So it'll be great culture fits. Culture is not something you can create in a person. It's hardwired, like it comes from their parents, their religion, their experiences, whatever. And so we need to figure out with our clients, we figure out what are their top three or four company core values? We map out a client-centric mission statement. We map out their personal why. We map out their business, why we want the business owner to have strong clarity so we can start to build the team around the business owner. Because we see a lot of businesses come to us and they've built a team around the business, and the business owner is doing all the wrong stuff, and you can't build the right team around the wrong person. And so these business owners that are holding onto and doing a lot of stuff, That they don't enjoy doing. They are the wrong person. And then they built a team around that wrong person. And so that's why they have the wrong team. If you're listening to this and you are still doing a bunch of stuff and wearing a bunch of hats and you already have a team, you have probably built the wrong team. And so, reach out to DoorGrow, we'll help you clean that up, and then we can get you connected to our collaborative situation here with Rocket Station.
[00:15:11] So you have this six week of you know, taking them through training, making sure you have a process to vet and find the right people. I'm sure figuring out people that their language level of ability in English and all these kind of things, what we want to bring to the table DoorGrow. We have DoorGrow hiring and we have a process for matching people culturally, personality, and skill wise to a particular role. And then we also have this AI assessments platform that we've partnered with so that we can vet candidates to see if they have the cognitive ability or the intelligence and the personality traits through this AI assessment to be a really great operator. And so there's less guessing, and so this will allow us to identify from the candidates that you send over, which ones will be the cream of the crop that will really do a great job as an operator. So we're super excited about this. And you have plenty of people that we could feed through, I would imagine, and find who's going to be this great fit for this particular business. And it'll be far more affordable than 80 grand a year.
[00:16:17] Greg: So yeah, and the DoorGrow students are almost getting double due diligence. Cause like I said, we're big on that three-point system in terms of how we evaluate, because most say most clients outside of DoorGrow, they don't really have, it's like, Hey, let's go grab a coffee and see if you're good and I'll read your resume. Awesome. Hired so they're getting the typical due diligence that we do already from a personality profiling experience from practical assessments. And then we're putting the candidates through the DoorGrow hiring platform as well to really niche it down. So, like I said, we definitely have tons of people ready to get going. But we're, we're excited to really see it. because I think when you compare what the AI does and the data you guys already collect through your vetting, mixing that with what Rocket Station has, it's going to be really special in terms of really getting the right, like I said, get the right butts in the right seats. I think we're really going to be able to do that at super high level. For your team for your, you know members that are really looking for that operator to help springboard the company to the next level.
[00:17:09] Jason: Yeah, and you know, transparently, Rocket Station was not the only VA company we re reached out to. We reached out to several in the industry and we've talked to some about this. And you know, there may be some additional ones that we do in the future, but nobody had something as comprehensive that we've seen so far as to how you onboard clients. And this makes us feel safe giving our clients over to you. And we've actually, like Sarah's, like I want to do a hire through Rocket Station, so she's our operator and so she's been going through it and she thinks it's a really cool process and she likes that you guys are mapping out processes and asking really good questions. And so there's a level of depth there rather than just, Hey, do you like this person? And do you like how they sound on this audio recording and like here, like you can pay right now and get them started to work for you. Yeah. As if they're just some tool that you can throw into your business.
[00:18:01] Greg: Exactly. Unfortunately, a lot of providers in the industry, they're just placements. It's just you need someone? I got someone. Here, figure it out, right? Mm-hmm. And I think that's where we bonded right when we did the podcast and we first kind of connected and started to have kind of exploratory conversations. It was just like, oh, it is more comprehensive from how you guys deliver your services to your clients. It kind of very well meshed with kind of how we just genuinely feel. It's about setting people up for success. Yeah. And there has to be more that goes into it than just here, here's someone, let us know how it goes. Call us if it doesn't work. You know, it's, it's someone's livelihood and we really take that serious and we know the team at DoorGrow does and with your culture so excited to really kind of build that, build that partnership and add to it.
[00:18:41] Jason: Yeah, we're really excited. So, so for those that are listening people can get VAs through this partnership with Rocket Station and DoorGrow, we will have some landing pages set up. We have our DoorGrow hiring process. If you want to hear more about DoorGrow hiring. Which can be used for, you know, VAs or can be used for getting team members locally and getting the right three fits for your business. Check us out. You can reach out to us at doorgrow.com. Those of our clients that are in the Mastermind, or if you're interested in joining our mastermind, if you're in our super system, you get access to this. It's part of just what we do. It's included and you get access to DoorGrow flow, our process software. You get access to DoorGrow crm, our sales CRM software that's next level. You get access to DoorGrow os the planning, cadence and operating system that your operator's going to help you run the business through. And what else? There's some other things, but with this, you're going to have an operator that has the tools and the training because we do a weekly call supporting operators and helping them get these systems installed, helping them get the business moving forward. And so as part of our mastermind, you'll have this ongoing support to move your business forward and get the operations really well dialed in. And if you have a really good people system, a really good process system, which is, you need something more than just process documentation. You need a system that they are able to use and leverage consistently, and that's better than just checklists. And then you have a planning system. These three systems will make your business infinitely scalable. You can add doors as fast as you want to. You can do acquisitions, you can you know, go crazy, you can get BDMs and like stack doors like crazy, and your business will not break and your life will actually get easier and better by adding more doors because you have more resources, more support, and you know how to get good people, and you have good processes, and you have good planning system to keep everybody rowing in the right direction and organized. Without those three systems, adding more doors for a lot of y'all will probably just make your life worse. And so we're really excited to have this partnership with Rocket Station to be able to take our mastermind clients to that next level. So, anything else we should say about this? Greg.
[00:21:00] Greg: Oh, I hope everyone's as excited as we are. I know we matched today for the announcement as well, so we're really coordinated. I mean, DoorGrow is on the same page right now, so no, we're, we're excited. Like I said, anyone, I know you'll have landing pages and I'm sure you'll have links to make sure all your people get routed correctly, kind of into, into the pipeline so that we can kind of get them going and get them set up with operators. But no, we're excited and if anybody has any questions, I mean, feel free to reach out to us as well.
[00:21:25] Jason: I think the last thing, just to be clear, This is not just for operators though. So, why don't you just touch on briefly, like what are some of the other roles that some of the property management businesses are getting VAs for? Yeah, definitely. And operators is typically not, historically, I've haven't seen anybody doing that, so this, that might be a little bit innovative and new, but I'm sure there's, you know, getting a personal executive assistant for the ceo. Which I usually recommend is like the first hire most people should be doing, and I've seen people that have no assistant, that have a bunch of team members. So there's that. And what else?
[00:21:58] Greg: I would say depending on your size and your scale, like an assistant property manager, right? Someone who can kind of field the maintenance, coordinate with vendors, coordinate with your own guys, the billing, the paperwork. Yeah. The one that we've seen a lot of our clientele, regardless of size jumping into is the leasing kind of administrative assistant where, I mean, maybe you still are the person that gets out there and is showing the property, but like all the paperwork, the follow up, even just prepping the listing, I mean, those are two really big ones. Yeah. In terms of property management is, has just been incredible the last three years, seeing the evolution kind of through covid and being more virtual. So yeah, if anyone's out there, obviously the operator position is something very specific to the DoorGrow community that we're really excited about and we're going to have a nice, a nice through line to get you the best people quickly. But if you're just needing staff, whether it's say on the maintenance, whether it is an executive assistant to give you some more time back in your day, whether it's on the leasing side, listing management, social media management, reach out because that's the bread and butter of what almost 2200 of our VAs are staffed out to our clients doing each and every day. And even if you don't have the process piece fully knocked out your maintenance process, your billing process, Don't worry, like we are there for you. You're running a business, you're running a successful business. What we find is for most people, the processes get stuck in the six inches between our ears. So our team is incredible at flushing that out. We'll build it all for you and then hire a rockstar to, to jump into the seed and, and take on whatever role, whatever role you need.
[00:23:26] Jason: Cool. Awesome. Well, I'm excited Greg. Thanks for coming on the podcast again, hanging out with me here and for matching my clothing. I appreciate that. Oh, same page. And we'll be talking soon. So until next time, everybody to our mutual growth, go to DoorGrow.com. Check us out and be sure to check out Rocket Station. Bye everyone.
[00:23:47] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!
[00:24:13] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.
DoorGrow has changed a lot in the last few years. We’ve added tons of new features and perks for our clients as well as new coaches… including Sarah Hull, COO and property management growth coach.
Join property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull to learn more about Sarah’s role at DoorGrow, operations, and how you can scale your property management company.
[02:47] Sarah’s Property Management Experience
[05:19] Improving Operations and Cutting your Staffing Costs in Half
[15:38] Why You Need an Operator in Your Business
[22:02] Personality Types and Their Roles in a Business
[27:24] The Clue that You Need a Better Team
“You can't build the right team around the wrong person.”
“Here's the clue that you don't have the right team: your day-to-day is something you don't enjoy doing every day.”
“Is the bruised ego worth a better, more profitable business that takes, a lot more off your plate and is less stressful?”
“The most important person you'll ever hire in your business will be the operator.”
[00:00:00] Jason: Here's the clue that you don't have the right team: your day to day is something you don't enjoy doing every day. If you're still wearing hats that you don't enjoy doing and you've built an entire team around you, and you're the wrong person in the roles that you're sitting in, then you've built the wrong team around you. You can't build the right team around the wrong person.
[00:00:18] Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow hacker.
[00:00:36] DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate gateway to high trust, real estate deals, relationships, and residual income At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their business businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host along with Sarah here, property management growth experts, Jason Hull and Sarah Hull, the founder and CEO and the COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.
[00:01:22] All right, so I'm already messing up the intro as I'm reading it because I'm looking and seeing her here in the screen, and I find her highly distracting. So, we were talking before we talked last night, we're like, what are we going to talk about on the podcast? And and then this morning, I said, what are we going to talk about? She says, I don't know, we only talked for like five minutes about last night, and we didn't come to a conclusion. So, I said, let's talk about you. Can I intro you and brag about you first? Sure, go ahead. So I wanted, I thought we would talk about Sarah today because she's probably a lot more interesting certainly to look at than myself and maybe to listen to. So I thought we would talk about her. So, I'll tell you a little bit about Sarah. So what's really amazing about Sarah and what I really like about her is that her wrists are really tiny.
[00:02:10] Sarah: That's really, it is true. It's not not true.
[00:02:14] Jason: My hands are not enormous. Dude hands. I buy child bracelets for her. I'm just kidding. All right, so
[00:02:19] Sarah: I have a five inch wrist. So like I can take, I can actually wrap my my pinky and my thumbs and touch. That's about, and they overlap. So it's about this big.
[00:02:31] Jason: Oh yeah. I can do the pinky as well. That's, yeah. Very small.
[00:02:34] Sarah: I train a lot on the rest. Get them that way.
[00:02:37] Jason: I do actually like that. I think it's a cute trait. All right. But I'm joking. What, what I really want to say is, so what's interesting to the audience is that Sarah has managed her own property management business. She has exited that. She sold it. Great job, by the way. Mm-hmm. And she managed a decent amount. At that size, most property managers have a team, like a full team, like five to 10 people I've seen. And usually at the stage, these companies are very unprofitable. Like this is the worst profit margin stage they've been at in their business. And they get stuck. And I call this area the second sand trap. They can't afford to really like expand or do more marketing or, and they're just not able to take a lot out of the business and, and their profits are all getting eaten up by staffing costs. Now Sarah had one part-time person, boots on the ground part-time and managed her business remotely part-time. Part-time, yeah. She was bored. Very. And people are like, well, these must have been really nice properties. These were C class properties? Duplexes, small plexes.
[00:03:52] Sarah: Yes. We had a good mix of single family, duplex, triplex, and then I think we had maybe two that were like 10 units, which was kind of big for my area, but
[00:04:03] Jason: Okay. Yeah. And so, what was your profit margin?
[00:04:08] Sarah: Over 60%. Okay. 60% was a not great amount.
[00:04:12] Jason: Okay, so a lot of you dream of that, right? And you think, how's that even possible? It's possible because one, Sarah is very efficient. She's a very good operator. That's why she is now the COO of DoorGrow. And everything in the business is better as a result of having her in the business. Everything's improved. But I wanted to qualify Sarah as a badass. Like she's really good at what she does, and she wasn't really connected to the property management industry. She just did what made sense to her. And she didn't really want to be talking to tenants and she didn't really want to be dealing with talking to the owners very often, and she just set up her business in a way that was very efficient. And so we'll be talking about that in the priorities training. So, Sarah also has come into DoorGrow and she runs all of our operations. She runs I everything that I've taught her that I like I've developed DoorGrow os and how we plan our cadence. She just knows it to the point where she can teach it. And she learned it all very quickly. And now she's the one that coaches clients how we did our hiring. She like has improved on that and built it out even more and teaches clients how we do hiring and so we help clients get all these systems in place to become more profitable and more efficient. Sarah does all that. So as an example, why don't you share the story of maybe Jade and Andrew. I think that's a great story. Because they were at a similar size of a business as you had had.
[00:05:46] Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Well, they had about 188 units and they had 11 team members total, like 11. So really, really overstaffed. And some of them were in the office and some of them were VAs and we just really had to like dive in because they said, well, like, what are they doing? And they kind of gave me like a surface answer. Like, oh, well this person does this and they do this. And I said, yeah, but like, what are they really doing? Because with 188 leases, like, let's just pretend that. We had all hundred and 88 due in the same month with, which isn't going to be the case. We're going to, spread that over the course of multiple months. But if we had all hundred 88, due even in one month, I still can't figure out what, two or three leasing agents are doing with 40 hours a week every single week. So we are just really going through and trying to figure out like, who's doing what. And sometimes I find that either no one's doing something or two people are doing something. And if two people are doing it, just know that it's not getting done.
[00:06:56] Jason: That's a 17 to one ratio. I just did the math.
[00:06:58] So that's, that's for each, for every 17 doors, they have a team member.
[00:07:04] Sarah: It was really bad. So we just kind of went through with them and figured out like, what is everybody actually doing? What should everybody be doing? And then how many people is it really actually going to take? And they they had a lot of meetings and discussions with each other and then like we kind of met a couple times throughout this process and they came to the conclusion that they needed to let go of about half of their team. And they did. And then once they did that, all of a sudden they're like, Hey, we're like profitable and we're making money. But when we first started talking with them, they said like, actually, we're losing money every month. Like we can't pay ourselves. We can't take anything and we're losing money. Like this business is costing me money to run every single month. Yeah, little uncomfortable situation to be in, especially because property management isn't, it's not easy, it's not a cake walk. You're not, like doing nothing all day. So if you're in a business like this, And it is complicated and it is challenging. Then the least you should be able to do is like get yourself a decent profit margin so that you can make sure that you're paying yourself and that your business isn't struggling to keep up with.
[00:08:14] Jason: Drive this home. Sarah did one call with them and the result of that one call was, what? What are all the results?
[00:08:21] Sarah: Well, on the one call, they realized, I have no idea what most of the people are actually doing. Like, they gave me the answer and I'm like, yeah, but how do you spend 40 hours a week doing that thing?
[00:08:32] Yeah. And from there they realized like, we need to make major, major changes to our team. And most of these people are going to have to go. On the second call, that's when they actually decided to take action. Okay. And they got rid of, so.
[00:08:47] Jason: The second call, which is she did this one call after that.
[00:08:51] Mm-hmm. They fired half their team, half their team then, and as a result, their profit margin, which was not very good, which was negative, losing money, was then what? What did they get to? I didn't get their profit margin. Okay. It was significantly improved. Oh, no. Significantly improved.
[00:09:09] Sarah: I know they weren't losing money anymore.
[00:09:10] Jason: Yeah. Yay. All right. We'll have to get some stats on that cause I want to brag during the priorities training about that. All right. So, Sarah has been able to dramatically improve our clients' businesses and lives. One of the things she's also helped a lot of clients with is completely restructuring their teams. Mm-hmm. They just did two of them last week. Okay. Why don't you explain Yeah. Kind of what you've done.
[00:09:37] Sarah: Mm-hmm. Well, all right, so one of them had about 360 doors and there were 1, 2, 3, 7 people on the team total. Which to some of you might sound like, yeah, that makes sense. And to me it's just, I'm like, there's too many people. And it was kind of like the same thing where everyone is saying like, oh, I'm so busy. I'm so busy, I'm so busy, and I'm looking at things going, I just don't understand what actually is is happening. Like, there's a lot of work that has to be done. It's like busy work. It's, it's like grunt work, but it's not, super helpful. It's just the things that are going to keep you afloat and that's like a bare minimum. So what we ended up doing is this client had one BDM, three property managers and then three assistants that were basically like assistant property managers. And we, he's like, I don't know if a lot of them are like good fits.
[00:10:37] And I just, I, I really don't know what they're saying they're doing because they all tell me like, I'm so busy. I'm so busy, but what's actually happening? So when we kind of like dove into things, we realized like, you are overstaffed and very similar situation. He wasn't able to really take a lot out of the business because there was not a lot left.
[00:10:57] Jason: Who is this? Kevin. Okay, so Kevin had three property managers. Mm-hmm. Each property manager and they were portfolio style. And each property manager had their own assistant. Yep. Because they were not, for some reason able to get done what they needed done.
[00:11:13] And Kevin himself was having to do lots of things, put out lots of fires, and be involved in micromanaging everybody. And when I first shadowed, and--
[00:11:22] Sarah: he wasn't micromanaging anybody, there was nobody leading the team.
[00:11:25] Jason: Okay. Kevin wasn't leading the team then? Nope. So what, Kevin? No one was leading the team.
[00:11:30] Sarah: Team was just kind of doing whatever they thought was the right thing to do.
[00:11:33] Jason: All right. Well, Kevin seemed pretty stressed out and what, yeah, and Kevin didn't have any personal support at all. Like nobody was helping Kevin with anything. He didn't even have his own assistant, but he got assistance for three people on the team that weren't very productive or efficient. So, what's the plan with Kevin?
[00:11:53] Sarah: Yeah. So, half of those people are going too. So we decided the BDM is excellent, so we're going to keep the, the bdm. He is taking one of the people who was a property manager and she actually tests okay as a property manager on our assessment. But she tests better as an operator. She is like, is a better fit for kind of this operator position. So we're going to shift her into the operator role. We're going to keep one of the property managers to do all of everything. And then one VA who's going to be like an assistant property manager.
[00:12:29] Jason: Where'd the BDM come from?
[00:12:30] Sarah: The BDM was already there. Oh, okay. He was one of the seven originals. Got it. So he had three property managers, three assistants, and one bdm. Those were the seven.
[00:12:39] Jason: Got it. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Who's the other one you said there were two? Josh. Josh? Yeah. What's the deal with Josh?
[00:12:46] Sarah: Josh had about 300 doors and his whole team was kind of like a hodgepodge of people. Not that he was super overstaffed, but just people weren't in the right seats. And when you have the right people, but you're not putting them to the best like use, then you kind of still run into issues. And Josh, same thing, no operator. There was no operator on the team and largely he was kind of handling operations and he is like, I don't mind doing it. I like doing it, but I don't want to be the only one doing it, and I don't want it to always fall on me. Mm. So what we're doing with him is he had a VA that he had let go, like right in the middle of our talks. And he said, Hey, I'm hiring a new va. I said, great, let's like test the new VA to see if they're going to be a good fit. And then he decided, like we shifted his team around a couple of times and like through the assessments realized and he had talked with you. This was the one that we took who he thought was going to be the property manager and then put her in the BDM role instead. Mm-hmm. Because he is like, well, I don't know how to like, make everything work. So now he's he's going to have like a whole different team structure. Not that he had to let anybody go. He wasn't like crazy overstaffed. It's just he still wasn't super profitable because he didn't have the right people in the right spots. And he didn't have anyone doing the operations. Mm. You can get as big as you'd like, but if you don't have someone handling the operations, and this is that back end piece, this is not front end stuff, like everyone always, this is what we start with, is we start doing front end stuff. Because when you start your business, you are doing the front end stuff, you're doing the leasing, and you're doing the showings, and you're talking to tenants, and you're handling the maintenance.
[00:14:37] This is all the front end stuff. This is the stuff that absolutely must be done just to make sure that the business runs. When your business reaches a certain size, you now need to have someone doing the backend stuff. Mm-hmm. And if you're not having anyone doing like the backend stuff, which is like, hey, making sure that everyone on the team is following the same direction and everybody is contributing to the vision of the CEO and running things like your daily huddles and your strategic planning and doing hiring and firing and getting job descriptions, doing team reviews like. For those of you that are hearing all of this and you're going, blah, that sounds horrible, then it means you're probably not the operator. And at some point, if you're not an operator, it's okay. Jason's not an operator, like he doesn't like that. It's not his brain functions. So you need the counterpart whose brain does function like that, and that would be me.
[00:15:29] Jason: I like to build out the systems and I must have been mis mixing up Josh's team. I think you did team with Kevin, so I think you did. Yeah, I remember Josh. So the most important person you'll ever hire in your business will be the operator. That's very true. And because visionary entrepreneurs do not like the details. I like building out the systems. I like creating DoorGrow, hiring and DoorGrow os and these systems. But I don't want to run them in my own business. I want someone else to run them because running those things is not as fun and it actually, the results are not as good because especially with planning, if I run all the planning, it's not as good. Bad, and so bad.
[00:16:09] Sarah: There was one week where I couldn't run the planning meeting because I was on a flight and I said, can you just run the planning meeting? And he did it. And I came back and I was like, I don't know what happened in here, but this is bad.
[00:16:20] Jason: It was okay. I did just fine. It was bad. So the issue-- just fine. The issue is it's not fun for me to run the meetings, but also when it comes to like actual strategic planning, we as the visionary or as the main leader of the business, or even as the operator, we have to be the last to speak. Otherwise, we influence things. And if I run the meeting, it's really hard for me not to say certain things and not to steer things a certain way.
[00:16:48] And so I don't get as valid of feedback from the team. I don't get as valid of information. So what happens is as visionaries, a lot of times we think we have all the best ideas. And it's not generally true, right? Our team members are closer and more connected to what's actually happening on the ground, and they can see things we can't see, and they have ideas that we don't have, and they can share these things with us, and we can get their buy-in into the plan if they help create it.
[00:17:16] But when we are just top down pushing everything, because we think we're the visionary, and this is one reason I really don't like EOS. One of the big fundamental flaws in EOS is they intentionally overinflate the ego of the visionary. The visionary has all the best ideas and they're so important, and that feeds the ego and it helps them to sell integrators, which in their accountability chart, they place the visionary at the top, and then they have a line going down. And this is just a fancy name for a stupid org chart that doesn't make sense, but you have the visionary connected to the operator. Which they call an integrator. And the integrator then is connected to everyone else on the team. This is one of the most flawed structures I've ever seen, and nobody runs their business this way because integrators or operators are not the people that should be over sales and marketing generally. They're not the people that, because they have a very different personality type, they're opposite. And they want to conserve and they want to make sure money is handled well and they don't want to take risks and they don't want to, like, this is more stuff for maybe your head of sales and marketing or maybe your BDM or whoever you want to place in your executive team. They're really usually equals, but they have to report their stats. Everybody reports their stats to the operator. And so the challenge is we have to have a system in which the team can all give feedback and give information first, and it isn't top down. It's really bottom up. And this is how we designed DoorGrow Os and why people that come from the EOS system get a much bigger result and a bigger yield from their team and much more profitability than they were able to get under u s or traction or rocket fuel, right?
[00:19:00] These are some of the things that Sarah's able to do with some of our clients. And I have to say, it's amazing to be able to have somebody that I can trust to not just understand all this stuff. Because she, she's super sharp but also to be able to teach it to clients and to be able to help clients work through all of this and trust that it's just going to be handled and that's really what we want in a great member of our team or in a business partner.
[00:19:25] Or with anybody that we work with, we want people that we can trust to just handle stuff and to do it well. Sarah does it really well, so, what else should we say about you?
[00:19:36] Sarah: I think that's just how my brain works. Like every job that I've ever worked before I owned my own business, I would be there for a little bit and it was super clear to me like, Hey, if we make these changes or if we do these things differently, or if we just shift this a little bit, it's going to be better and here's how it's going to be better and why.
[00:19:55] And it's so frustrating for me when you know, like I was at multiple insurance companies. Before like I kind of got into property management and I on all of them, I was like, oh, we could just do it like this. Well, we don't do it like that. I'm like, I know you don't do it like that, but you should do it like that and here's why. And when it's frustrating for me where I'm like, oh, you could just make these changes and you could do things like this. And this is just how I think my, my brain is just wired to work. because I can like look at the overall picture of things and I'm like, well, why do we do things like this? You could do it like this instead and we should change this and this should be different. And that's really good. This is really great. Keep this, but change this little thing. And then these are the results that you'll have. And at all of the insurance companies I had worked with prior, I had like made some suggestions and they're like, oh no, we're not going to do that. We can't do that, we can't do that. So I think looking back, it's funny for me because I'm like, oh well yeah, I was kind of, almost like destined to like get in and, and run my own business because then if I think, Hey, we should do things like this because of this, then I can just do them. I don't have to go and ask like, oh, hey, can I really think this would help your business? Like, we can do it. And they're like, no.
[00:21:08] So now, like, just looking back, I'm just able to kind of pick it apart and see things that sometimes other people don't see because you're just, you're too close to it. Mm. And, and it's it's personal for people too. They're like, oh, this is my business and I'm really proud of it and this, I worked so hard and I know, like, I know what goes into running a business. Like I know it, blood, sweat, and tears doesn't even begin to cover it. I understand that. And that being said, I think that's one of the reasons why you should be looking to improve it. So if you can make a few small changes, like your, your ego might have a little bit of a bruise, right? But is it worth the trade off? Like, is the bruised ego worth a better, more profitable business that takes, a lot more off your plate and is less stressful? So for sometimes, sometimes people are like, no. I don't want that. I just want to know that I have all the answers and I'm right all the time, and that's okay.
[00:22:02] Jason: All right, so what's unique about Sarah, and some of you might identify with her a little bit. So in Myers-Brigg, she's probably an INTJ.
[00:22:13] Sarah: Well, not probably, I'm like the epitome of INTJ.
[00:22:16] Jason: So INTJ. Is very intuitive. They are introverted. They're a thinker and they're judging. Now INTJs are because they're super intuitive. They're called the strategist because they're logical and they figure out solutions to things, but what's I think really in interesting, and I think there's women's intuition and she's very intuitive. She just knows things without knowing why it's true. Mm, yeah. Like she's like, there's a problem over here in the, in our business or there's a problem over here and I don't know why, but it, something's not right. So. And what's frustrating is I will say no. I don't see it. Like everything's fine. And she's always right. She loves when I say, you were right. She loves it a little too much by the way. But she's usually right. And so I've learned to trust her intuition tuition and sometimes I think our unconscious. Has a lot of information and can process a lot more than our conscious mind can and picks up on little details and things. Mm-hmm. And has worked some things out and just knows things and it bubbles up to the surface of our conscious mind and we're like, Hey, something's off here. And she gets these flashes of intuition that when there's like some sort of threat and things like this as well. So I've learned to trust your intuition because it's proven accurate multiple times. And I've always considered myself fairly intuitive in the business, but her intuition is kind of next level. And so I think being able to trust your gut and having a partner in the business or some, or an operator that you can trust, their gut can have a significant impact as well.
[00:23:52] So I'm a bit opposite of her. I'm an ENTP. So we both are the intuitive, which is the n and we're both thinkers. Thinkers. But. I am a bit more extroverted probably. Even though I really feel like an introvert a lot of times, but I like need to be around some people occasionally.
[00:24:12] Sarah: Well, I know, but you usually like will kind of, you'll you'll break in that arena before I do. You're like, we like I just want to get out of the house and be around people and I'm like, oh, I don't.
[00:24:22] Jason: Yeah. And then I'm definitely more, we think very differently. Like very differently. Mm-hmm. I'm perceiving and you're judging and perceiving means my desk is chaos right now. If you could see it. And it means I love pulling in ideas from lots of different places. I have a crazy variety of books on the bookshelf over here. I've like, I pull in things from a lot of places to formulate my thinking. Then I'm able to formulate some new ideas and I'm very creative that way. And that's part of, I think why we have such great IP at DoorGrow. I get a lot of coaching and a lot of input from different sources and we improve those ideas and we have, I think, the best ideas and innovate the quickest in the coaching space in this industry period, maybe out of a lot of coaching businesses. We consult and share ideas with other coaches and coaching businesses as well that we're in Masterminds with. I don't want to do all the implementation. I don't want to make sure everything gets done. And so I'll be like, Hey, here's this great idea, but Sarah also brings really great ideas to the table. She's like, Hey, I had this idea. And then she'll just rapidly implement, like she just gets it done. She's like, Hey, let's do this premium Mastermind event and have people, we'll rent out an Airbnb and we'll get people to go and we'll do this and it'll be awesome. And I'm like okay. And she just makes it happen. Sells all the tickets to it, gets everything organized. I just showed up and got to look cool and she made it all happen.
[00:25:50] He's like, what are we doing at this event?
[00:25:52] I showed up, I'm like, so what are we doing?
[00:25:54] He's like, what are we even doing? I'm like, just--
[00:25:56] I'm like, okay, Sarah's leading this. So that was our last DoorGrow Live too. Like Mar-- Yes, that's true-- my assistant who did a lot of planning and Sarah like, handled some of the details and ideas and I was just like, all right, I'm just here. I'm the tech guy.
[00:26:11] Sarah: Just when we call your name, get to the stage, just go up there.
[00:26:14] Jason: Yeah. When, when it's your turn, Jason, you go speak and talk about something and I did. So that's kind of how we work together. So, what else should we say about Sarah? She's still working on getting her last name changed because it was Hall and she's switching it to Hull.
[00:26:31] Sarah: Well, right now, I really don't know what it is. Yeah. Truly. I don't know because the Social Security office has me as Hull.
[00:26:39] Jason: So you got to change. Yeah. To my last name.
[00:26:41] Sarah: Yeah. But the DMV is like, so super booked out.
[00:26:46] Jason: So not, not in Texas yet. Your license doesn't say it yet.
[00:26:50] Sarah: No, no. Not my license doesn't say it yet, but my social security card does.
[00:26:56] Jason: So, and your social media, I think you've changed most of it. I changed it before. Long before this. Yeah. So, but Hall's her ex-husband's last name, so yeah. So I'm trying to like, he's trying to buy a vow. I'm trying to buy that vow. I think I paid for that vow. What's on your neck and on your finger. And I think I've, I think I've accomplished that. I don't know. I don't know. So, cool. And I don't know what else, what else should we say?
[00:27:24] So Sarah's one of the key coaches in our business here at DoorGrow. Our mission is to transform property management, business owners and their businesses, and she does that like, she helps to do that. She runs a lot of the group coaching calls when I'm focused on other things in the business, which is awesome that I have somebody I can trust to do that at a really high level and to do it really well and clients really appreciate her test.
[00:27:49] Sarah: When you're busy, I run the whole scale call. Yes, every single week.
[00:27:54] Jason: Well, you do. You go beyond that. You also run some, some of the other calls that I-- Yeah, for sure. I used to run every call. You can run every call. So, yeah, which is awesome. All right, well I think, for those of you that you want to experience some of the magic of Sarah and improve your operations, you're struggling with things, your profit margin is not what you wish it would be, and you think you need more kPIs and micromanaging and to like squeeze more juice out of your team. That's probably, there might be a little bit of truth to that, but generally you'd probably need a better team or you need to optimize your team and that's one of the most profitable changes you should make first before you start messing with micromanagement, KPIs, more pressure, stuff like that. You need to make sure first you have the right team, and here's the clue that you don't have the right team: your day to day is something you don't enjoy doing every day. If you're still wearing hats that you don't enjoy doing and you've built an entire team around you, and you're the wrong person in the roles that you're sitting in, then you've built the wrong team around you.
[00:29:05] It's pretty obvious if you look at it from that perspective. You can't build the right team around the wrong person. Can't build the right team around the wrong person. So, we can help you make sure first, who are you, we can help you figure that out, and what do you really enjoy? And we have processes for that. And then we can start to build the right team around you so that you are supported and you get to move closer and closer to having more fulfillment in your day-to-day. More freedom, more contribution, and more support. And then your team members will be able to have those four things and you'll get probably three times the output from those team members. And that's the biggest expense and that will give you the biggest profit in your business if you can get these systems in place that we can help install. With DoorGrow OS and DoorGrow hiring and DoorGrow Flow and DoorGrow, CRM and DoorGrow. What am I missing? Flow hiring, crm, you said all of software. Those are our software. Okay, cool. Which we call our super system. So we're going to be doing this event on the 22nd, talking about priorities and how to increase your profit margin and how to decrease operational costs. We hope to see you there and or watch the replay if you see this later. Make sure to reach out to DoorGrow if you would like to experience some Sarah Magic. And until next time to our mutual growth, everyone.
[00:30:26] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!
[00:30:53] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.
Have you heard about the multifamily market oversupply that’s been increasing since the undersupply during the COVID-19 pandemic?
In this episode, Jason chats with John Carlson, President of Mark-Taylor Residential about Insight on the multifamily market oversupply. Mark-Taylor Residential has currently an inventory of 22,000 units and over 34,000 residents, being a multifamily leader in Arizona.
[06:33] What is the Multifamily Market Oversupply?
[14:44] The Fundamentals of Real Estate and Property Management
[20:05] Why Property Managers Need Their Own Portfolio
[25:11] What will Happen to the Market Next?
“If you're that light, people are going to be reaching out to the light when it gets dark.”
“Property managers, they have no concern about being the bad guy. They're totally cool with making sure that things work and running it like a business.”
“You have to make sense of the market.”
“I think it's a smart move that every property manager should be also building up their own investments.”
[00:00:00] Jason: Property managers have a duty to be involved a little bit politically to prevent this firestorm from happening. And this is an opportunity to go and be the canary in the coal mine or be the Paul Revere shouting, from the horse, letting everybody know, Hey, there's a problem coming.
[00:00:18] Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income.
[00:00:55] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.
[00:01:19] My guest today, I'm hanging out here with John Carlson. From Mark Taylor residential, and I mean, it sounds like you guys are doing some big things. They're in Arizona, they have 22,000 units, 34,000 residents. This is not a small operation, so John, welcome to the show.
[00:01:37] John: Jason, good morning everybody. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
[00:01:41] Jason: Cool. So we're going to be chatting a bit about multifamily market over supply, which I'm guessing is pretty much what it sounds like. So, but John, maybe give us a little bit of background on you first and how you got into this and your relationship with Mark Taylor and all of this kind of stuff. Give us some backstory.
[00:02:00] John: Sure, brevity matters. So, grew up in the Midwest Southern Minnesota. Farmer by trait with stepfather from age 10 until 18. Realized that was not for me. I'm not the micro dirty jobs kind of guy. You can see. I like the dressed up look. Yeah. So at age 16, I really thought about what I wanted to do in life, and of course didn't know. I was good at math, so I decided to be an electrical engineer. So I went to school for that. Worked for a great small company called vtech for about five years. Was able to finish school while working there and travel the world and discovered Phoenix and realized Minnesota was not long for me and what I wanted to be and do long term. So, chose Phoenix with my girlfriend Megan at the time. Traveled to Phoenix to look at apartments. I think we toured 15 or so apartments in one day. We had the big apartment guide book, if you remember those. Yeah, listeners. So we were feeding through those and there's a big eight fold and it had Mark Taylor communities. So we toured three or four of those and landed on San Cervantes. I always joke with my team, we actually broke into the amenity space because the office was closed, it was past six o'clock. So I just remember seeing this beautiful, resort style pool, sand, beach area, ramada water features. And I'm like, Megan, we have to live here. So, We flew back that night landed. I called the manager, Michelle Sinclair the next day and secured a two bedroom apartment class, a brand new for $940 and a month free concession.
[00:03:28] So we moved a few weeks later and this was just prior to 9/11. Megan had a job. I was scheduled to fly back to Chicago to a final interview with a fuse company. They were opening a satellite office in Phoenix, and that was scheduled on 9/13 2001. Okay. So clearly there were no flights that day. The world was on edge, including me, and they put a hiring freeze on. So I was off to the races with my fax machine and sending out resumes if everyone knows what a fax machine is, right? So, that lasted a few months and lo and behold, Michelle, the manager, came to me and said, Hey, Would you consider part-time leasing while you wait for a position in engineering? And in my fixed mindset, I said, no. I'm an engineer pounding my chest. And a week later I realized I had to pay bills and electricity and all of those things, car payments, so I signed on and never looked back. I fell in love with the organization, real estate, and truly found my home as we like to say. And that's Mark Taylor.
[00:04:27] Jason: Cool. That's quite a story. So it's pretty interesting. And so now what do you do at Mark Taylor? So everybody's clear.
[00:04:34] John: So today I run Mark Taylor as president. As you mentioned, now 23,000 units Class A both Phoenix and Las Vegas. So in two states so, regional but have a pretty good grasp of the market across the country. So, And I think, a lot of us know us nationally from a brand recognition standpoint. We've been in business almost 40 years. So that's Mark Taylor in a nutshell.
[00:04:56] Jason: So, That's awesome. Yeah, it's quite a story to go from starting to help with leasing to being president of the company. I think you skipped a lot of steps in between, but I enjoyed the beginning. So, what was the time gap there just for the audience to understand?
[00:05:13] John: So I started leasing in 2002. My girlfriend Megan, moved back to Minnesota a year later. So I was here by myself. So I had a lot of time to figure out leasing real estate in the business. So I just moved my way through the organization. Like I said, I was good at math. I think I always had an appetite for real estate and I just really sunk my teeth into this business. And, as I always tell my new hires and the younger generation folks like lean in on mentors, find the best leaders. I found some great leadership mentors, people that were patient with me Yeah. And building up my skillset including Scott Taylor and Jeff Mark, our founders. And I just felt like that really helped my growth and my pathway and I worked my ass off. And I think, you can never look back and poo work ethic and sure. My mom and my father helped me with that years ago.
[00:06:02] Jason: Yeah. Growing up on a farm, you're going to learn some work ethic. Yeah. Whenever we were bored, my dad would say, we'd learn never to say we were bored because he would put us to work. We'd be working in the yard.
[00:06:13] John: I think I used that word for about 10 years.
[00:06:15] Jason: So I'm never bored. I am creative and I'm never bored, so it doesn't happen. All right, so cool. Well, John it's awesome to connect. So what year did you become president? How long? 2016. Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, I mean, that's a cool story right there. That's a cool story. So let's get into this topic: multifamily market oversupply. I mean, there's a lot of multifamily stuff going up here in Austin. I'm seeing it pop up everywhere. There's building and building. So, what are you seeing there in Arizona? What are you seeing, maybe you think is happening here in the US and the market?
[00:06:51] John: Sure, let me start with, I'll start with, Phoenix Metro and all this broaden out. So, Phoenix, like most of the country was undersupplied from a multifamily perspective since really 2011. And I think if you just look back at the gfc the greater financial crisis in 2008 and nine and 10 that really I'll say put development in a paralysis type state. And Phoenix specifically was almost like the Black Plague. No one wanted to even think about investing here. And as most of the audience knows, I mean, it takes a long time to, to buy a piece of dirt, zone prep, design, get zoning approvals and get it through the city and actually build a unit that's two to three or four years depending on project type. So it took a long time to build up supply. So being undersupplied for a decade really resulted in a lot of things that we hadn't seen historically in Phoenix or across really the national landscape. So fast forward to the pandemic and we're starting to kind of get our, I'll say druthers in terms of supply. We're starting to get a better balance of that. An interesting data point we were delivering 18 to 22,000 units in the mid eighties in Phoenix, and had never delivered. 10,000 units in a year, past 1987 until last year. So if you think about the population adjustment, 19, just say 95 versus today, that's, almost 2 million people different. So, clearly there was an undersupply component. Fast forward to today and we're delivering and will deliver about 16 to 17,000 units in Phoenix Metro. Again, hadn't delivered past 10,000 units until last year when we delivered just over 13,000. So, yeah, I'll just say the equilibrium was in the landlord's favor, and unfortunately for renters that was costing them in terms of, monthly rent and you add to the field, the tailwind of Covid. Lots of folks came to Phoenix and I call it the Boomerang effect. Although the boomerang never came back, meaning. A lot of folks got to experience Phoenix for the first time, and I think this was a condition across the country. They found great spots where maybe there was a little bit less restriction in the Covid era, if you will.
[00:09:04] And there were people coming here from California nonstop saying, God, I really enjoy Phoenix. I'm going to rent a place for six months. My employer's allowing me to be flexible at this point, and I'm going to test this out. And I think a lot of people decided to stay. So, as always, jobs create future apartment demand, but in this instant, if you worked in San Francisco, but you were living here in a six or 12 month lease, we weren't absorbing your job, but we were definitely taking your monthly payment. So, it was unique in that aspect and a lot of things changed from Covid. Obviously we can touch on that later, but expand.
[00:09:34] Jason: Yeah. A lot more remote work. Everything flowed in the nation from places with less freedom to places with more freedom.
[00:09:42] John: That's just what one would expect. Yeah. And that's what happened. So I think people got a taste for Phoenix. They realized July and August aren't that bad. Yes, it's an oven for a couple of months, but we're okay. HVAC and other things. So, I think that accelerated what I think people were already starting to figure out that Phoenix was great and I think that happened across the country. So, not only Phoenix, but broadened that out. So across the country, I think there was a similar pattern in terms of lack of development, both in single family, which has to be mentioned because that's a component of our housing shortage and multifamily. So fast forward to today. You had a couple things happen, so you had some momentum in real estate.
[00:10:22] You had zero interest rates, essentially that environment for 10 to 15 years, and you started to have all of these developers starting to get their, I'll say, momentum and build units. And of course a lot of Class A units were delivered and are being delivered. And so, what's happening now is you're seeing a surge in that. And part of that has been fueled by delays in construction. So if you think about the covid related supply chain issues, some of that's kind of worked through itself over the last 12 to 18 months, which is good. So inventories are better. Pricing maybe has reprieved a bit, but if you say, supply chain issues, labor issues, which is the biggest component of that you have construction deliveries that are delayed, say three to 18 to 24 months.
[00:11:08] So a lot of these deals, the 16,000 units specifically in Phoenix are result of that. Otherwise this would've been delivered prior. So I, I think that's a big component of the oversupply. Which at the end of the day if you go into, I can go down to a bunch of soapbox areas, but if you think about the renter, which is most important to me there should be a nice equilibrium in the market that's the best for all of us, right?
[00:11:31] You get about a 3% rent growth, which has been the case since 1982, 3.2% rent growth average by year. That kind of fits with historical cpi. So when you're raising rents 20% or 10% that's not sustainable. I'll just say it that way. So this supply cresting is benefiting the renter for sure. Yeah. Q1 Phoenix was down 3% probably the lowest in the country. And, supply cures a lot of things. I'll say it that way.
[00:11:59] Jason: Yeah. So I mean, everything's, the pendulum's swinging, right? And it's going to move back towards middle or back towards equilibrium. But how do we stop the swings? Because probably, you'll have a bunch of developers, they've been building stuff out because everybody's trying to capture all the opportunity that seems to be happening in all these markets like here in Austin. It's crazy. I'm sure it's crazy in Florida, like all the areas, there's lots of people moving from states that were more, more liberal and more control, and they're moving more towards areas where there's a little bit more freedom financially. And it'll be interesting to see if some of these places, the people that are moving, if they bring their policies with them and if those areas start to shift and change. But some of these areas what you see going on in San Francisco, what you can see going on in California, what you see going on in Seattle. I mean, some of these places do not look like great places to live anymore. Like it's getting chaotic. Sure. Because of some of the policies. So we're going to see a lot of money, I think shift, continually shifting towards these areas of freedom, and as that's happening, are these builders overbuilding? do you think that's going to be happening? That there's going to be too much like, it's like a gold rush?
[00:13:14] John: Sure. Well, I think that ship has mostly sailed because of the interest rate environment. So yeah. I think most of us pick any sector have forgotten how to live in an interest rate environment. We were 0% essentially. So, if you look across the spectrum, I think you're going to see zombie companies, fade away. You're going to see the old adage from really 17 to 21. It's weird to say old, but you had startup companies that were negative cashflow that would not, be able to pay for a printer, but they would just get another round of funding, it's almost like a Ponzi scheme. So I think getting back to some fundamentals from a business more of an institutional business, historical methodology makes sense for the entire market. And I think this will force guys or groups or developers to be much more thoughtful as they go to market or try to build deals, right? It just it's not the wild west or, the top of the bubble. I think fundamentals matter. I think how you think about your business, how you look at, your construction, your development, your cost structures, what rent should be, all of those things are probably okay for guys that have done this the right way for a long time. I think it's the fringe guys that are greedy and are taking advantage of certain market conditions. And that's fine. Everyone has their angle. But I think this will shake out in a way where you get back to some real core guys or core groups that know what they're doing and fundamentally will help shape the future of multifamily the right way.
[00:14:44] Jason: So you mentioned the fundamentals. So what do you feel like are the fundamentals that business owners in the property management space should be focused on? That's going to prove to be effective in the long term. I mean, obviously the company that you are president of has been focused on the fundamentals and has been doing well consistently. We've got a lot of listeners that are probably much smaller than your business and what do you think they should take away from and maybe could learn from what you guys are doing at Mark Taylor?
[00:15:18] John: Yeah, I think you know Jeff Mark, Scott Taylor, our founders, taught me a lot of great things about real estate. And if you look at their track record they've never lost a deal or a unit or a dollar in real estate in 38 years of business, which is impressive considering all of the cycles and dynamics of what happens economically. So I think it comes down to when I look at Mark Taylor, we started as a developer, became a manager. Now we consult, we asset manage all of those things. And I think their fundamentals have always kept them in check, right? They've never gotten to a point where, oh, let's be greedy or let's stretch. If you have an investment model, here's your box. Never go outside of that, right? And so, I think back to, 2006, we sold everything we owned except for one deal.
[00:16:03] In June of 06 at the peak it was a different environment then. And then we went pencils down post 2007. We built our last deal, San Porte and Tempe, and then hit pause on the other five pieces of dirt. We had a lot of guys just kept going nope, this thing's never going to end. And the first out of the ground in 2011 because we are also a data company, we've been collecting enormous amounts of data since 1985. Yeah. And everything said, tailwind, green light. So, we bought as many pieces of dirt as we could and built the most units from 11 through 15. And it really transformed our business and got us really on the front end of the last cycle. So, I think all of those things happened within our box. And today, we're moving through really the last two deals of our construction pipeline, and we'll probably be on pause or pencils down until the market makes sense again. And I think as simple as that sounds, you have to make sense of the market. So when you're seeing real cap rates below 3%, sometimes, below two and a half in 1920 and 21, you kind of got to scratch your head and say, okay, is that long? That in terms of going through a next 2, 3, 4, 5 years or next cycle. Does that make sense? And the problem with that is if you're not putting in fixed debt or fixed rates and you have guys saying, oh, the music's never going to stop, I'll just put floating rates on these or a three-year arm, that's a problem.
[00:17:24] So you're seeing guys that made potentially bad decisions or got outside of their box. Seeing what happens when the market shifts and rates move like they did. No one can control the Fed. And seeing the acceleration of those rates has really created a dynamic where things will start to break. And I think we're seeing that now, or at least those things are percolating.
[00:17:45] Jason: So for the listeners, help them understand at Mark Taylor the how the portfolio works. Are you doing third party or are you owner operators? because you're talking about selling off properties and you're doing management.
[00:18:01] So, Give the listeners an idea. We talked about kind of the size of it, but what percentage is stuff that you developed that you've owned or that you own currently and then like that you're managing?
[00:18:15] John: Yeah, great question. So we today, we get really all facets of the business. So our development ownership. So today we have about 5,200 units that are owned and self-managed. So we're about 80% third party. And I think the third party management aspect and also managing your own assets gives us a really nice balance. Yeah. So we're able to, in terms of properties that we own, turn my life back on properties that we own. We get to test new things like centralization and new software, new systems, new methodology. And on the third party side, we get to learn from ownership groups all over the world. We have owners from Japan, Tokyo all over the country large institutions, MetLife, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, et cetera, to Mom and Pops. And I think the deal flow that was occurring in 17, 18, 19 and certainly at the peak in 2021 showcased us in a, in terms of how we supported. Transaction capital markets. So every deal that comes on the market, we underwrite and it helps us get a true feel for what's happening in the market from an operational perspective.
[00:19:20] A competitor's not going to send me their financial statement, but guess what? I get to get one when they go on the market. And then we see and track through great relationships, how those things happen. Meaning how many people are signing cas if there's 500 cas in one deal, there's obviously appetite for Phoenix. So, really understanding the transaction markets, the capital markets understanding, how guys are achieving debt, equity and all of those relationships has really kept us well-rounded. So, that's fed into Mark Taylor Consulting. So today we, we consult with a variety of developers groups with marketing programs and plans asset management nationally. So, it gives us a lens into a lot of different areas that really. Just allows us to take advantage of our expertise knowledge and data.
[00:20:05] Jason: Yeah, and that's interesting. So one of our coaches that we have he said that it's really surprising that a lot of property managers don't have their own portfolio. They don't have their own properties that they have ownership in. There's quite a few. And he says, that's kind of like going to the restaurant, asking the waiter what's good there. And they said they've never had anything. And so I think there's an advantage, like, if you believe in real estate investing, I think it's a smart move that every property manager should be also building up their own investments. That's where some of the funds should be going towards to build up their own portfolio and their own investments, because, That's, that is smart for the future. That being said, building up a business is probably one of the most profitable things if you do it effectively to get an ROI on that exists. So you mentioned you mentioned focusing on the data. And you have all this data that a lot of people just don't have or don't have the opportunity to see at the level that you are doing it at. What is the data telling you right now that you think property management business owners that are doing third party should be focused on right now?
[00:21:14] John: I think that, it's always predictable with each cycle, so I think back to. When we were coming out of the Great Recession, and I still have a, somewhere I have a sign. It was the old Clear Channel Billboard sign. It was just a little standup model. And we had three months free San Palacio, and there were other groups doing four months free. And these were prorated concessions. Wow. And when I think. To that timeframe. And most of my current generation of, leasing agents, service technicians, haven't been through a downturn. It's been a pretty good market since 2012. Yeah. And when I'm in company meetings, they'll say, raise your hand if you've worked in the gfc. And everyone's like this except for some execs. So. Trying to help them understand the cycles of this business is important. So, last year we did a lot of coaching and training on, okay, this is what owners are going to start to look for as the market shifts, right? When your rents are going up 10% NOIs here, you're above budget. There's not a lot of detailed conversations from most owners, meaning you're hitting all of those targets, things feel pretty good. But when it's doing this, And the market's softening, and now rents are going back and retracting. Now what do they do? They start to look at marketing costs.
[00:22:26] They dig in like, what's going on exactly? Is my phone number on my website go directly to, someone that will answer it? Are my phones being answered? What's this expense over here? They become expense conscious, marketing conscious and personnel conscious. That's predictable. So my marketing team said, wow, you were right. We're getting a lot of calls now from owners. Of course you are. Yeah, the dynamics shifted and it's not even bad. It's just softened. So wait till maybe you're not covering debt, right? So I'd say that most of our groups are well capitalized. That's not an issue, but that's going to be for certain third party management groups. That's going to be an issue, right? Because they're going to pay debt before they pay your payroll depending on your property management agreement. So how does that work out? You're going to have to start to scale back on expenses. They're going to say, Hey, We need to save $20,000 this month, how are you going to do it?
[00:23:13] So it just changes the dynamic of how you function as an operator. And I think back to your original point, us as ownership, that really helps us because we know in terms of our focus of maximizing the bottom line or financial potential of each asset. Man, it's a lot harder in this type of environment and it's going to get a bit harder for the next 12 to 24 months.
[00:23:34] Jason: Yeah, I'm a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, but I think leading into the next election, every election year, things get really crazy. So, and it seems like nothing makes sense right now, like everything is just getting worse and crazy and, It doesn't seem to make sense, but I think it's it'll be crazy leading into 2024. So it'll be interesting. And I think, yeah, there will likely, it sounds like, be a wave of owners reaching out, owners wanting more support, investors wanting more help with what they're dealing with and trying to figure stuff out. There's probably quite a few that just I think ever since the pandemic, it woke people up because lot of the investors that were DIY and doing it themselves, they realized that they don't like being the bad guy. And if things do get crazy and things financially get tight, maybe for renters or for owners, right? Then property managers, they have no concern about being the bad guy. They're totally cool with making sure that things work and running it like a business because they've heard it all. Sure. They've been they're numb to all the BS and the stories and the, drama. Whereas, a lot of the homeowners and the property owners like, that's hard. It's hard, it's uncomfortable to deal with those situations. But when things are good, They're like I don't know that I need a property manager. But I think the need will increase. So this is interesting. So, well, is there anything else you'd like anyone to know about this idea of multifamily market oversupply or maybe about Mark Taylor or how should we wrap this up?
[00:25:11] John: Well, I would start with just, from a. Current to long term perspective. So I think the over supply is happening. You're seeing it in Austin and Phoenix and other markets, and that will eventually fill up, right? So you have no choice but to stabilize. So your rents might not be what you performed, but are underwrote in your performer. But the reality is, at some point those will stabilize. And I think if you look past the next 24 months, 36 months and beyond, and really look at the last part of this decade, which is weird to say, but the late twenties. I think, we have to look at the country or this environment as there is going to be a housing supply shortage and I'm including single family for sale, single family for rent. And if you just go back to something we touched on earlier the attack on our industry and landlords and developers in general. Rent control is just. Commonly brought up by legislatures every year, including Arizona. And, the things that have, I'll say mostly ruined certain markets. I won't name St. Paul Portland and I could keep going. Uh, But those policies and how they've thought about creating housing. For their constituents and their population has clearly give them a great f And I think if you look across the spectrum of groups or cities or states that have done this well we have to fight for those policies.
[00:26:36] And if we don't fight the wrong policies will occur and this housing shortage will just get, I think, substantially worse quickly. So, we have to think about policies. We have to think about doing things the right way, making sure that we have an ability to develop and create supply so that we can house folks that want to move to Austin, Phoenix and everywhere else where people believe in liberty, freedom and all the things that we believe are, founded in the constitution and belief in the US makes sense. So here we are today, Phoenix and Austin being two of them.
[00:27:12] Jason: Yeah, it'll be interesting. If there's a shortage supply shortage coming in, housing, and then people think the solution is rent control it. That's like pouring gasoline on the fire. They're like, Hey, let's just make this worse. It's, I mean, it's wrong politicians that are doing the stupidest thing ever. It was the wrong thing and destroying things. And so, yeah. I think that's everybody listening, property managers have a duty to be involved a little bit politically to prevent this firestorm from happening. And this is an opportunity to go and be the canary in the coal mine or be the Paul Revere shouting, from the horse, letting everybody know, Hey, there's a problem coming. People are going to start trying to push this rent control idea and it's a bad idea if for no other reason than helping the industry. Use it as a vehicle or platform for some self-promotion for your business in your market, and get on some news channels. But I think that would be a great idea because then you're going to look like a profit when this stuff starts to come down and they're implementing rent control and there was a problem and you're like, Hey, I was the one that told you so people are going to start to listen to you.
[00:28:16] This was like Winston Churchill, right? Yeah. Hitler started taking over and he was like, Hey, I've been telling everybody, and they're like, okay, you help us out. And if you're that light, people are going to be reaching out to the light when it gets dark. And because they know you, you have been talking about this. So maybe it's time for property managers to get a little bit noisy about this rent control stuff that's coming and not just hope and pray that it doesn't happen. You don't have to deal with it so.
[00:28:43] John: No question. No question.
[00:28:45] Jason: Cool. Well, John, really great having you on the show. Any call to action you want to leave anybody with or? How can people check out your company or whatever you'd like.
[00:28:54] John: Yeah, check us out mark-taylor.com. That's mark hyphen taylor.com. Like I said, third party manager development consulting. If you're thinking about, developing a project in Arizona or you want to learn more about, data and terms of multifamily market conditions, Arizona, Nevada will soon be launching a subscription model, so you'll get access to a lot of our great reports.
[00:29:17] And data, which will be incredibly helpful for those that are just trying to understand the market and what's next. So, reach out to myself directly. You can find me on the website and I appreciate you having me, Jason. It's always good to talk to great guys.
[00:29:31] Jason: Like really great to have you. Thanks for coming on the show.
[00:29:34] John: Thank you. Talk soon. All right.
[00:29:37] Jason: So, really exciting to have John come on the show today. I think this brought up some ideas of what everybody needs to be paying attention to in the future, and property managers, your job for your investors is to see a little bit of the future and protect your investors and your clients, right? And hopefully we had mentioned also becoming an investor yourself if you're not already doing that. So for those of you that are struggling with your property management business right now, you're like, I don't have time right now to even think about getting a little bit politically active about rent control, or, I don't have time right now to even worry about the data or the future. I'm struggling to figure out how to like make money in my business, or I'm struggling with all the questions my team are throwing at me all the time. Why can't they just think for themselves? Reach out to DoorGrow, we can help you make your business scalable. We can help make it easier and we can help remove that secret pain that a lot of you have that are over 200 doors that deep down, if you add more doors, your life's not going to get better, personally, it's going to get harder. And so we psychologically get reversed towards growth and adding more doors. We can help solve that problem. We just need to make your business scalable and get you out of all the things that you really don't enjoy doing.
[00:30:54] And we're really good at helping people do that. So if you'd like to start stacking and adding a hundred, 200 plus stores a year in your property management business and grow it and scale it, we have clients that are doing that and we have proven it and our model works and we can help you do that as well.
[00:31:11] So reach out to DoorGrow. And if you're one of the startups or smaller companies and you're under a hundred doors, we can help you get very quickly, get those doors stacked up and start and get the growth going. So reach out to DoorGrow. Check us out to DoorGrow.com. Click the big pink button. We have a free training that's 95 minutes long of me just dropping value, and that's going to change your mindset about what it takes to grow your property management business and to make it scalable.
[00:31:38] Check that out and it's free. It's right there. There's a YouTube video on that page that we set up. So, and book a call with us. We'd love to talk with you and see if we can help you grow and scale your business. We're always looking for really awesome growth-minded property managers to be part of our Mastermind community. We have some amazing people in there that are getting awesome results.
[00:32:00] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social, direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!
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